Monthly Archives: August 2009

Aurora Donnelly is a solo practitioner always looking forward to the next exciting transition.

Several colleagues have mentioned lately that they experienced a “panel” interview.  That is, they were interviewed by a group of people, either potential work associates or a mix of superiors and associates.  In one case, the job seeker was confronted with a group of associates and supervising attorneys, five in all, who asked her “pressure” questions.  Would she be able to handle an A-type environment?  High performance expectations?  A heavy workload?  She came out of the interview fairly apprehensive, not knowing whether she wanted the job, or could work comfortably for this company!

Another colleague was interviewed by a group of future co-workers and the meeting was more of a discussion about the ins and outs of litigation, what courts he had appeared in, what types of cases, what resolutions had been achieved.  The interviewee actually felt comfortable.  He related that this type of interview technique was beneficial in that it allowed the associates to gauge whether they would be able to work well with the job candidate and that it also gave the job seeker a chance to preview the work environment and type of people with who he would be working.

The first example I consider a “stress” interview and I wonder if the purpose behind this type of interview is to create a situation where the candidate is put on the spot to see how he or she responds to that type of stress.  Maybe it works.  But keep in mind that a firm that favors this type of interview may harbor an antagonistic working environment.

The second example seemed to my friend a good way for both sides of the table to explore whether they could work well together and to learn about one another as a group. Maybe that works.

One of the challenges of this type of interview is that often, the interviewers start asking questions or making comments at the same time and it is difficult to keep your answers organized — you end up being the one trying to maintain order.  And sometimes it is difficult to tell who the decision-maker is and you run the danger of addressing your answers to someone who is not the decision-maker.

Panel interviews can be irritating, creating an imbalance of power, and I don’t respond well to them.  But apparently they are popular now and not all interviewees dislike them.  I remember having an interview at a drug company years ago where I was asked, no doubt because of my sunny demeanor, whether I had ever had to do “anything difficult” in my life.  Whatever, as they say.  The thing to do was covered in a prior week’s blog, be prepared.  Expect you might be faced with a panel interview, picture it and prepare for it. And don’t get irritated.

Aurora Donnelly is a solo practitioner always looking forward to the next exciting transition.

After each interview you go home and wait for the “next step.”  Eventually you achieve your goal of getting an offer and get busy getting acclimated to your new job, and never give the interview a second thought.

But more often than not, you either don’t hear back from the interviewer or you receive a short “your qualifications are outstanding but no thanks” response and feel as though you are starting all over again.  Here is a critical issue — more than likely it is not your fault. You will not help yourself by examining your answers, your gestures, your demeanor, over and over again. You will just torment yourself.

Try to get the interviewer to tell you why you were not selected for the job.  If they do, they have given you a wonderful gift that will help you in preparation for the next interview.  But generally they will not tell you this and you are left to surmise on your own.

Don’t over analyze the interview experience.  Take some time to review the meeting.  Think about your answers and see where you can improve on what was said.  Do this promptly after the interview while the meeting is clear in your mind.  It helps to write down any unexpected questions and formulate a good answer for future interviews.  Decide what, if anything, you need to improve and then work on that and you are done.  Dwelling on what you might think was the deal breaker in the interview will not help you.  It will just lower your confidence, so why agonize over it.

Shortly after being admitted to the Illinois bar I applied to an ad for a Spanish-speaking associate that a colleague pointed out to me in the Chicago Daily Law Bulletin.  I met with the hiring partner and after some pleasant conversation about law school, and life in general, he offered me the job on the spot.  I had seen several other people in the outer office waiting to be interviewed, so I was surprised at being offered the job that quickly.

It turned out to be a very busy practice, with a large number of cases in a variety of areas of law.  I was immediately immersed in it and got to know the clients very quickly, received many referrals and only left when I had to move out of state.  A couple of months after I was hired, I asked the partner what it was about me that made him offer me the job so quickly.  He responded that if someone could go to law school full time, work full time and take care of a family, they could handle the very busy caseload in his office and relate well to the clients.

So you see, who would have guessed — the pace, workload and intense client contact of the position was never mentioned in the ad or the interview. This attorney wanted an independent associate who could work quickly and maintain excellent client relations. Had I not asked I never would have known why I was hired.

There are so many factors involved in picking a person for a job that trying to guess why you were not made an offer is most often fruitless. So, go do something more productive and get over it!

Don Brown, of Donohue Brown Mathewson & Smyth, will be one of our speakers at our Wednesday event. He took some time to answer our questions.

What do you hope people learn from your presentation?

I would hope that the attendees appreciate that in order to survive in this legal market, it is necessary to be adaptable.  Too often, people may focus too narrowly in what they are willing to do.  Being open to diverse opportunities is essential.

What advice do you have for unemployed lawyers?

I suggest that each unemployed lawyer network with everyone they know associated in any way in the legal profession, people in government, courts, businesses and firms.  Be flexible enough in planning to pick the brains of all potential sources of information.

How can trial lawyers make themselves more marketable in this economy?

You must have confidence that the skills you have developed can be adapted to a large variety of scenarios.  Be a salesman of your skills and be prepared to retool if necessary.

If some unemployed lawyers want to work together to create their own firm, what advice do you have for building a firm?

Starting a firm is extremely challenging.  There are a number of matters that must be considered and hopefully certain characteristics can be shared among the attorneys you are planning to join.  Some are: compatibility of goals and expectations; sense of cooperation and sacrifice; ability to compromise; and a sense of humor. Like a marriage, the three “Cs” are most important:  commitment, compromise and communication.

Meet Sandra Bishop, one of the speakers at the Aug. 26 Attorneys in Transition event. She took some time to answer a few of our questions.

What do you hope people learn from your presentation?

That you have to prepare to manage the entire interview process in order to maximize the opportunity for a successful interview.

What advice do you have for unemployed lawyers?

Remember 90 percent of the professional opportunities garnered are through who you know, not by what you know.  No, not even through the Internet.

You have to learn to distinguish yourself anew in the market.

Competing in today’s market requires a renewal of ambition and energy.

Learn to market yourself and ask for business everywhere you go!

Developing key client, or potential client-relationships is critical.

Consider offering your services to do seminars, conferences, industrial meetings, etc.  The upside is that you can begin to become known and can “work the room,” especially if you are trying to develop new niches.

How can lawyers make themselves more marketable in this tough economy?

That perhaps the time has come for attorneys to consider developing many small niches to add to their current repertoire, ensuring a larger base, and subsequent increased revenues.  Now is the time to consider trying to capture a new area or market with one of these niches.  i.e. real estate tax law, liquor license law, construction/ mechanics lean law, technology/ privacy law and/or food sanitation/ safety law.  Or, consider becoming a house counsel, working for insurance companies, banks, government; or, consider the opportunities which may result from the incredible dollars flowing into many markets/ industries from the 2009 Federal Stimulus plan.

What is the biggest mistake lawyers often make when interviewing for positions?

Resting on their laurels and stressing old accomplishments/ wins rather than defining how their skills, experience and expertise will fit into the position/ corporation that they are interviewing today can derail the interview.

Don’t walk into an interview acting smug or thinking you “have it made” or “know it all.”  Class, dignity and humility, in addition to being qualified for the position, are the hallmarks of an uptown attorney interviewing for positions in today’s market.

Not doing your homework.  Whether it is checking out the history of a firm, the stock price of a corporation, or the over-all sense of what the company/industry does and how they do it, BE PREPARED.

Aurora Donnelly is a solo practitioner always looking forward to the next exciting transition.

As I have watched various friends and fellow attorneys in transition go through the interview process, they have reported on some unexpected techniques and remarkable interview stories. I also have experienced some bizarre interview techniques.

One smart and poised colleague received a call on his cell phone.  The caller introduced himself with an unintelligible name and identified his law firm with another unintelligible name.  He then informed my colleague that he and three of his associates would like to conduct an impromptu discussion on speakerphone and did he have 15 minutes to be interviewed.  My friend had no idea which of his job applications had prompted the call and was taken aback by the “surprise” technique. He responded that he had to schedule a better day and time for the interview.  He then went home, researched the law firm, and prepared for the interview, a prudent strategy in response to unexpected interview requests.

Maybe the interviewer was testing to see how the prospective candidate “thinks on his/her feet,” but we have to weigh the risk inherent in accepting such an impromptu interview request against the possibility of not being contacted again by that prospective employer.  But one ill-advised answer made without the opportunity to prepare could sabotage the extensive efforts that go into getting an interview.

When we work on the resume, plan the search strategy, execute our networking plans, etc., there is time to polish and edit.  But the pedal meets the metal during the interview, all else is rehearsal and you usually have one chance.  I prepare by over-studying, by being hyper-prepared and by being absolutely sure of the facts, sequence and substance of my stories.  You really are telling the interviewer a story, the story of you, and if you do it very well, the interviewer finds your story compelling and recognizes you as someone with whom he or she wants to work.

I prepare by engaging in a particularly tiresome and annoying process: I ask a friend or a colleague to do a mock interview with me, and while studying my resume, ask me whatever comes to their mind, no matter how rude, or out in left field or boring they think the question is.

It forces me to ready myself for routine as well as bizarre questions (e.g. describe the color red to someone who has never seen it!?! a question a colleague was really asked on an interview). If you are really serious about this, you can video yourself during this process.  I was once horrified to see myself on a practice video leaning back in my chair, legs crossed, dangling one shoe off the toe of my foot.

So do a dress rehearsal, or several dress rehearsals, with a willing coach, so that by the time you get to the real show, the interview, you are totally ready, calm and mentally prepared.  My colleague of the “ambush phone interview” did all this and was rewarded with a happy ending when he finally figured out which firm it was, went to a scheduled interview and received an excellent offer.

Aurora Donnelly is a solo practitioner always looking forward to the next exciting transition.

I have to work on my attitude fairly regularly. Being in transition definitely has two sides.  The exciting part is an adventure, learning new things (exploratory interviews, maybe taking classes to learn a new skill), meeting new people (lots of networking), looking forward to finding work that is, more often than not, rewarding and satisfying.

There is some satisfaction in learning the new “transitioning” skills, even, honing your resume, coming up with a perfect “elevator statement,” realizing that you know a lot about your chosen field or your particular area of practice, that there are many smart and accomplished people in the same situation as you.

The flip side of the adventure is the uncertainty: when will the transition come to a happy end? Who, of all the people you are meeting, will be the conduit to your new, improved professional life? Will you be improving your professional life or will you have to settle for something that’s not exactly what you wanted? If your time in transition lasts more than a couple of months, your concern over these questions can weigh on you, and can work on your confidence, not in a good way.

Some days I find it difficult to continue my search for the new career or the new job and I want to read a book or take a nap or talk to a friend instead. And I let myself have breaks, but I set a day or a time when I will take the next step, make the next call or answer that job ad. Having a weekly schedule helps. On Friday or Sunday, or Monday morning, whatever day works best for you, make a schedule of activities that will further your career transition: so many contacts this week, answer letters, send thank you notes, get that book a networking source recommended, etc.

When you have a day where the tasks seem too much or you are getting tired, take a break, but then pick up your schedule and work it again, and make sure you accomplish most of it in the time you allocated. You will feel much better and you’ll have a road map when you get your motivation back. And, you will feel a great sense of accomplishment when you meet your weekly goals.

How often in your life do you get the chance to sit back, spend time thinking about yourself and your life, to set your own schedule and think about things that matter to you?

In future writings I’ll talk about specifics, how-to’s and why’s, but for this week capture this special time for yourself. Don’t feel sorry for yourself. Be joyful, embrace the adventure and enjoy the ride.

Congratulations to my blogging predecessor, Dana Hill, on her newfound career, and thanks to her for sharing her transition stories with us. Hers is an inspiring story of success in making this career transition.

Michael S. Burns, associate dean for enrollment management and director of admission at DePaul University College of Law, took some time to answer a few questions about the job market and the economy.

What advice do you have for those going through a job transition?

With the current economic downturn, we’ve seen an increase in prospective law students who are considering returning to school from the work force. My advice is to use this time as an opportunity to reflect upon your career goals and dreams. This may be an ideal opportunity to move into a new career and achieve a dream that would have otherwise gone unfulfilled. Because the law and lawyers touch every area of society, it’s not difficult to find an area of law in which you can still make use of some of the knowledge and skills that you acquired in another profession.  Most law schools, like DePaul, really value students who bring professional work experience with them to law school.

What are some of the common questions you hear from law students about the job market?

With so many stories in the news about large law firms laying-off attorneys, many prospective students ask whether jobs will be available for them upon graduation.  First, it’s important to note that the job market tends to be cyclical. The legal job market will bounce back, as it has in past years after other economic downturns.  In addition, a law degree will always be a valued.  Because the skills acquired in law school are so widely valued, graduates of law school are sought after in a number of industries including insurance, banking, human resources, contract negotiations, healthcare and both private & public management.

How has the changing economy impacted the law school’s enrollment?

Because a number of factors affect law school enrollment, it is difficult to isolate the impact of any single factor.  It appears, however, that the economy has caused a slight increase in interest.  At DePaul, we received more than 5,000 applications for admission for fall 2009. This reflects a steady increase in applications in recent years.

Our enrollment will also be slightly higher than last year.  For fall 2009, we expect to enroll approximately 260 full-time day students and 100 part-time evening students.

What impact will the economy have on the local law community?

I would imagine that the economy will have a tremendous impact on some within the local legal community and less impact on others.  We’ve recently witnessed substantial layoffs at some very large, prestigious law firms.  Some smaller firms seem to be thriving as corporate clients look beyond large law firms for representation. Some attorneys will make changes within their firms or practice areas in an effort to become more competitive in a changing world.

Dana Hill is a large law firm attorney who practiced for 10 years and has been in transition since early 2009.

For several years, my friend and co-worker Mike had been telling me about a friend and former colleague of his who was teaching legal writing full-time at Northwestern.  The topic would come up when we discussed the negative aspects of life as a large firm lawyer.  I didn’t have any solid plans to leave my firm, but it was nice to hear about someone who made that transition and enjoyed it.

A few weeks after I’d learned I was involuntarily leaving my firm job, I approached Mike and asked him to introduce me to his friend, Sue.  I wanted to transition to an alternative legal career and sought to learn more about teaching at a law school, as well as the potential opportunities at Northwestern, my alma mater.  Mike said he’d be happy to make the introduction, but suggested that I send him an email with some talking points, such as my experience working with law students while on our firm’s hiring committee and my prior transition to an administrative role at our firm.  Mike sent his friend a glowing email about me – truly, it was the nicest write-up I’ve ever read about myself.   Sue and I arranged to meet for coffee.

At that point in my job search, I had conducted only a couple informational interviews.  This would be my first with someone I didn’t know already.  I came prepared with my “elevator speech,” a short description my work history, qualifications, and job interests, as well as questions.  Our meeting went extremely well, despite the fact that it was unlikely there would be any job openings for the next school year.  I came away from the meeting feeling good about making a new contact and with plans to keep in touch, but also without the expectation of moving forward in the short term.

Luckily, a month or so after our meeting, Sue called me to let me know that things had changed and a position was available for the next school year.  She thought I should apply.  I quickly sent in my resume and was invited to submit additional materials to the search team.  My interview process included a phone interview, a presentation, and in-person interviews.  I’d had several interviews prior to this, so I thought about ways to improve my performance.  To prepare, I reached out to my former legal writing professor, talked with a friend of a friend who taught legal writing at another law school, and talked to a former co-worker who was now an adjunct professor.  I also reached out to my contacts in law schools to serve as references.  For my presentation, I hooked up my computer to my TV and made a friend watch me practice with the PowerPoint slides in my living room.  I also gave it over the phone to two other friends.  After each round of the process, I sent thank you notes to my interviewers.  I kept my friend Mike up to date, continually thanking him for his help.

I’m happy to report that I got the job and will start as Northwestern’s newest Clinical Assistant Professor of Law in August.  I made a list of all of the people who helped my through my job search, including people who made introductions, agreed to informational interviews, or sent me job postings – it exceeds 300 people.  Now it is time to thank all of them, and most importantly, convey my desire to return the favor.  I look forward to being able to help others the way so many people have helped me.